Wootton Bassett – Calm down dear, it's a democracy
I do sometimes wonder if the load which Wootton Bassett bears, admirably, should be shared a little. It is, of course, geographically and procedurally correct that all repatriations go through the town from RAF Lyneham to Oxford. Fine. And thank goodness the townsfolk and others turn out to show their respect to our soldiers.
But in a country of 61,399,118 you would think the load of grief for returning deceased soldiers could be spread a little more evenly than solely on the shoulders of a small town with a population of only 11,043 people.
One of the unfortunate ramifications of the present arrangement is the current furore over an alleged “plan” for a demonstration in the town by Islam4UK.
Except that there is no plan (as I write).
So let’s get back to basics and stop panicking.
According to the government website:
If you are organising a march, you are legally required to notify the police six days in advance, or as soon as it is reasonably practical to do so.
March organisers have to:
- notify the police in advance of their plans for the protest
- advise them of expected numbers
- apply for a permit if one is required or requested
And then:
Police have many legal powers that can be used to prevent violence or unrest associated with protest. They can, for example, impose limitations on the route of the march, or the location and duration of a rally.
They will only do that in order to prevent:
- riots or other serious public disorder
- damage to property
- serious disruption to the life of the community
So, can I suggest that everyone calms down and waits for any march organisers to go through the process above and for the police to respond? You know, like, following the law? – Which is underpinned by the Human Rights Act that:
…protects freedom of expression and freedom of assembly – these form the basis for your right to gather with others and protest.
The act forbids governments and other public bodies (including police) from violating these rights. However, it does allow for some limitations on these rights in order to prevent unrest, violence and crime, and for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
The police work to balance the right to protest with the right of other people to go about their lives safely and freely.
All I am saying is that we have a framework of rights and precautions which have very expensively been put in place over centuries. There is no need for panic.
Anjem Choudary of the Islam4UK is making the right noises about talking to the people of Wootton Bassett to persuade them to “back” the march.
I can’t put thoughts into the heads of soldiers, particularly ones who have gallantly lost their lives. But I would imagine that when one fights for one’s country one does it to, among other things, uphold the rule of law and citizens’ rights. So let us use the law and recognise that people have the right to protest within the framework of the law, which means in consultation with Policeman Plod. We have a robust enough democracy to withstand the odd protest, in Wootton Bassett or anywhere else.
Update: The Thinking Policeman offers some very wise views:
TweetWe should not stop Mr Choudary’s march taking place.
…If the proposed march goes ahead, the people of Wootton Bassett should show their contempt. Instead of turning out as they do to respect the British soldiers they should clear the streets, put down the shop blinds and shut their doors. A march through a ghost town with a small police escort will make this publicity stunt the non event it should be.
Related posts:
25 Responses to “Wootton Bassett – Calm down dear, it's a democracy”
Leave a Reply
Burbler-in-chief
“So let us use the law and recognise that people have the right to protest within the framework of the law, which means in consultation with Policeman Plod”
First of all show respect your self, Police not Plod.
Second thank God this IS a democracy or those who want to insult the English with these protests would be shot in their own country.
Also if white English staged such a march about Islam there would be an outcry “racists”.
Finally If people living here do not like this country then move abroad.
I must also say, my heart goes out to the soldiers who have been killed and especially their families, and also may I congratulate those at Wootton Bassett and the great dignity and consideration they show, however, let us remember, no one is forced to join the army, there are safer livings to be earnt, if you join the army you have to expect that death may be an outcome.
But, this community does not deserve any headline grabbing marches by any organisation no matter what they may be entitled to when it borders on discrimination, or insult, we English have rights too.
“First of all show respect your self, Police not Plod”
Don’t be silly. I have great respect for the police to the extent that I don’t have to worry about using affectionate jargon to describe them. And I wrote “Policeman Plod” not “Plod”. It’s Enid Blyton.
“Finally If people living here do not like this country then move abroad”
Do behave. We have a tradition of tolerance in this country and the right to peaceful protest is part of that tradition. We don’t have to start talking about getting people (who may well have been born in the UK) to move abroad. We have a very mature police force, especially in Wiltshire, which is more than able to deal with this scenario.
The problem that is taking over this country weather you like it or not or admit it or not is that the ONLY people too scared to speak out any more are the English, Welsh, Scots and Cornish, in case they offend people, as for anyone else, remember London last year, certain others shouted death threats agsinst the Englsish and burnt the flag, if they were English doing the same about oothers (a) it would not have been allowed and (b) there would have been uproar.
And I consider being told not to be silly as insulting as anything else, what right do you have to judge me.
Sorry, no offence intended. I just disagree with your views.
Accepted and understood, and thank you for your reply.
That is the good AND bad thing about this country, we have freedom of speech, unfortunately some believe that means freedom to do what they like.
I should also use a spell check and thesaurus when I write “whether” as a prime example.
Regards
Thanks Roundle. There are some very wise words from a serving Police Inspector on “The Thinking Policeman” on this link:
http://bit.ly/6VjbDM
I think you might sympathise with his views, as I do.
Most interesting.
I was listening to a program the other day where a Muslim, (now I have to say I have never spoken to a Muslim so I can only go by what I hear and see in the press and on television, as can most of the population), stated that he believed “anyone who spoke ill of Allah should expect the worst”.
I am English, not British, my sons are Devonians, I am Agnostic, but what worries me is that you never or very rarely hear of anyone saying they are scared of the Jewish popolation, the Chinese here, the Irish, the Greek or Italian, and more who live here, what we are seeing more and more are conflicts between the English and Muslims, why?
When was the last time any of the above other than the Muslims burnt the British flag here, chanted hatred in London, made threats to carry coffins through an English town, never.
Now I understand that requests are being made to build towers that represent muslim power within communities here.
This is a free country, my fathers brother died in Corea, my Father fought like many to make it so, so that I could raise my sons freely, and now others join our Army, Navy and Air Force to ensure this country stays free.
As the person in the link you show above stated, if people are not happy here, go and live somewhere else, whether born here or not.
I firmly believe that within three years there will be a serious problem here and we are heading towards a civil war in the Uk.
As I stated before it appears the ONLY people too afraid to speak freely now are the people borne here over generations.
In closing, whilst I have no ties with the Police, and no one is perfect even in the force, I also congratulate them for the work they do, I could not do their jobs.
Mr Choudary should surely be permitted his march, so long as he is willing to permit others similar freedom to make points they feel strongly about even if it offends others and is done in a way and in a place where it is deliberately designed to rub that offence into people’s faces.
So, if Mr Choudary makes it clear he would be very happy for a march against Islam and its violent tendencies and the nasty nature of its prophet (I mean these in the eyes of some) to take place outside his mosque and would defend that as free speech, then he should be allowed his march. If not, he is a hypocrite.
We know already, from the way his organisation reacts at the slightest notion of any criticism of Islam, that he is a hypocrite. The way people like him continually demand rights for themselves that they would not give to others stinks.
Roundle, I think you are getting very unnecessarily fearful due to a minuscule number of people who absolutely do not represent the overwhelming majority of peaceful Muslims who are good citizens of this country. (I work with Muslims. They are perfectly normal people). I would strongly suggest you read this article by the Vice Chair of the Muslim campaign for secular democracy. Hopefully it will allay some of your fears:
http://bit.ly/7z7IZG
Matthew:
“Mr Choudary should surely be permitted his march, so long as he is willing to permit others similar freedom….”
Well he hasn’t got any choice has he? I don’t think we can start prohibiting marches if the people organising them are hypocrites. There wouldn’t be any marches and we’d be breaking the Human Rights Act.
Let us get one thing clear.
They wanted to march because they knew NOTHING would be done against them, YOU try a march against Islam in Southall, Manchester, Hounslow, Birmingham or Slough, and see what happens, you would be lynched by the Muslims even if it were a 100% peaceful march, and again, .
It is becomeing a case of “we do what we want and you try to stop us” wait and see and remember my words in two years time.
Like the Roman, I seem to see the River Tiber foaming with much blood… oops, wrong thread…
Well the English Defence League did have a march in Birmingham “against militant Islam” on last September 5th. I think they survived. I don’t remember reports of any lynchings. I think we would have heard about it.
Obviously YOU do not look in the right places
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211414/Anti-fascists-clash-right-wing-protesters-Birmingham.html
regards
Hooded Asian youths as seen in one of the many photographs taken on the day ENCOURAGED by their so called leaders
“The most influential Muslim leader in the West Midlands urged his followers to ‘vent their feelings’ against Right-wing protesters during a Birmingham rally that ended in violent clashes and 90 arrests.
Birmingham Central Mosque chairman Dr Mohammad Naseem encouraged Muslims to counter-demonstrate during Saturday’s anti-Islamic protest by the English Defence League (EDL)”.
Oh and I in NO way ever have nor will I ever in the future support the BNP or ANY such party, I never EVER condone violence but remember my words, the “english” I am English not British, I have not become a British subject, are becoming fed up with immigrants coming in and “appearing” to take over.
Happily no lynchings.
“They” are only “taking over” in your imagination.
I look at this almost from the opposite end, I think we have more to fear from our Government than religious based cultures. All the things people must do to be able to protest these days seems to be designed to mitigate their impact, which sometimes loses its impact. I am also concerned with the apparent anti-terror laws. Even the Old Beak seem rather inconsistent with this.
I will say though, if there are 100,000 civilian deaths in Afghanistan, that seems to me a legitimate subject to protest about; if they are caused by our forces.
Why can’t we edit posts!!! And why don’t I spot my errors until after I post!!! *anger*, *anger*, *anger*, *anger*.
I should have written, “All the things people must do to be able to protest these days seems to be designed to mitigate their impact, which sometimes loses their worth.”
Rusty, I have now activated a plug-in which allegedly allow users to edit their comments (up to 20 minutes for non-registered users, indefintely for registered users). Let me know if it doesn’t work for you – often these plug-ins don’t do exactly what they say on the tin when I install them.
I am closing now, I will permit someone the final word and will not reply, however remember my words, I believe that within three years most of the population who are out of work born here families dating back generations, sons of families such as mine who can not find either work or afford homes due to immigrants keeping the wages artificially low and an overcrowded island, will have taken about all they can.
I may be wrong, but time will tell.
If this board is still here then I look forward to coming back and saying “I …. … ..”
regards
Sadly everyone seems to have fallen in to the trap that Choudary wanted. He wanted everyone to talk about him and his tiny band of followers. He wanted a controversy, he wanted outrage because in the same was as the BNP crave the chance to claim they are victims, so do these extreme muslim groups. We should have ignored him, and so should bloggers.
How very absolutist!
A brief note about west London and its Asian population: it’s worth pointing out just for factual accuracy that the vast majority of the Asian community living in Hounslow, Heston and Southall are in fact Sikhs. There are a smaller proportion of Hindu residents and not many Muslims.
While acknowledging the unwisdom of building sweeping arguments from personal anecdote, as someone who lived happily in the area for decades without experiencing any significant racial tension, and who campaigned in local Lib Dem politics there, I would have to say that it is not a particularly good example to choose to support the argument being made above.
My overwhelming experience of Asian people in Hounslow, Heston and Southall has been that they were usually friendly, courteous and often a pleasure to associate with, whether Sikh, Hindu, Muslim or of no faith at all. And I have made some good friends among them over the years.