Liberal Burblings

Hansard now have the transcript of yesterday’s Lords debate on some Equality Bill amendments (Schedule 9). It is here in PDF format – the relevant debate starts on Page 15, which is enumerated as ”1211″ at the top left hand side of the page.

 They work for you have it in a format which is easier to read (no clicking “next page” necessary).

The BBC have the first two hours of the House of Lords session on iPlayer, but unfortunately it cuts out before this vital debate. I’ll keep an eye on it, and if they correct that problem, I’ll post the link here.

Two bits caught my attention when I was listening to the debate.

First there was this passage where Lord Lester said he was “appalled” at the “prelates’” apparent desire to remove the principle of “proportionality” from the wording of the bill. It was said very strongly:

The Strasbourg court has made it clear that the controlling doctrine is that of proportionality. A classic example was the case about the bar on homosexuals in the Armed Forces. Religious and other beliefs, and convictions, are part of the humanity of every individual, including atheists, agnostics, sceptics and the unconcerned. It is only the manifestation of religion or belief that may be subject to prescribed limits. That reflects the fact that the way that beliefs are expressed in practice is what can impact on others.

Despite the protestations made by senior clerics, including those on the Benches here, I believe that the measures in the Bill accommodate the reasonable needs of the churches and other religious organisations to manifest their beliefs and to practice their faith in accordance with their beliefs, subject to the overriding requirement of proportionality. I find it astonishing and deeply depressing that the right reverend Prelates should find the principle of proportionality-a principle which is deep in Christian ethics-to be a principle to be removed from this Bill. I am, frankly, appalled that that should be the position.

Secondly there is this passage where the Bishop opf Winchester is interrupted by the former Bishop of Oxford Lord Harries with an excellent point:

Bishop of Winchester: Churches, religious organisations and charities have senior lay staff, one element of whose responsibility is to represent the convictions, character and vision of their organisations. I was glad that the noble Baroness mentioned some of those. It is a matter of great importance to us. The same is true of the senior staff of the Evangelical Alliance. An English diocese in the Church of England has a diocesan secretary-the head of its diocesan administration-who is almost always lay. It would be impossible for us to work with that woman or man, representing us widely in a whole series of contexts-

Lord Harries of Pentregarth: I am sorry to interrupt the right reverend Prelate, but the whole tenor of his speech seems to be in support of the Government’s amendment. I cannot at the moment distinguish his position from what has already been made clear by the Government about the kind of categories that will be included-the very categories that he is mentioning.

Related posts:

1. Lords Equality debate: "Status Quo" v. "Status Quo". "Status Quo" wins
2. "Duplicitous betrayal" – Evan Harris on goverment and the Equality Bill
3. Equality Bill – Schedule 9, P2, SS8. Will the sky fall in?
4. Churches get their knickers in a twist over the Equality Bill
5. The puerile debate about who thought of IHT change first